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View Full Version : MNF Denver vs Bungals


Stifler's Mom
10-25-2004, 05:03 PM
What a disappointment the Bungals have become this year after ending last season on a half way promising note. It's obvious that they are still in the same "rebuilding" mode they have been in since like 1989 just from the fact they are starting Carson Palmer at QB instead of Jon Kitna.

The cannot tackle worth a shit, can't stop the run, and can't cover receivers. In other words, they're a sloppy team.

Their lone victory was a 16-13 win over Miami in week 2 and you have to keep in mind how pathetic the Miami offense had played every week until finally showing up and beating the overrated Rams yesterday, so that win means zero to me.

Denver however, is a tightly run ship. They once again can run the football all over the field, no matter who is at RB, they and have a great defense with alot of team speed to cover those "playmakers" Cincinnati has at WR....who are irrelevant if the QB can't get the ball to em anyway.

Cincinnati played Miami and Baltimore at home. They scored a pathetic 9 points vs Baltimore in a 23-9 loss, and 16 against Miami in a 16-13 win. Cleveland and Pittsburgh also both held them to 17, each team whipping their collective asses by double digits in the process. Cincinnati is hardly the high scoring team they were turning into last year.

Why is this relevant? Because Denver has just as good or better of a defense as any of these teams, so I look for 13-17 max out of Cincinnati tonight (barring a Plummer collapse and easy scores due to great field position). Don't think a Plummer collapse is in the cards though, because Denver will be able to run the football up and back down the field almost at will against the pourous Cincinnati defense.

The Cincinnati defense has yielded 23 (to a not so great Ravens offense), 28 to Pittsburgh, 34 to Cleveland and 31 to the Jets. Denver can score with any of these teams...therefore I see at least 24, and more than likely 28-31 points for Denver tonight.

This adds up to a Denver win and cover.

All this home dog cover % and primetime dog cover % means diddly shit in this game unless Denver self destructs, because they are flat out the more talented, more experienced, and better coached ball club.

Yesterday Cleveland covered +7 vs Philly, and I believe alot of factors were overlooked in that game that were in Cleveland's favor, because Philly looked indestructable in its first 5 games.

Detroit also won SU and covered vs the Giants at +7...because Detroit is a better ball team.

Cleveland has Garcia at QB who is a well seasoned veteran, and the Lions have Harrington who has a few years under his belt now as well.

These things don't apply to Cincinnati. They don't have an experienced QB, they are not the better ball club, they do not have a good defense, and they don't have any match-up advantages in their favor. They flat out suck.

Why did these other spreads not move, even though the higher percentages were on the faves? Because there were less wagers coming in on the dogs, but they were for higher amounts would be my assumption.

So....why IS this line moving? One would have to assume because there are not large wagers coming on Cincinnati. No sharp in their right mind would play this sorry ass Bungals team vs Denver at this line and sit there and hope that "70% of primetime dogs cover".

Gimme Denver. The Bungals suck ass. It's the right call weather they cover or not, and that's all you can do as a capper....take the side with the better chance to cover. If the correct call covered 100% of the time, there would be no books to take wagers, so of course it's far from a guarantee, but taking the Bengals tonight basically is like hoping and praying for the ball to bounce in their favor.

Taking a bad team and hoping for that to happen will get you a win every once and a while, but leave you in the poor house before it's all said and done.

Besides all of that, favorites that win SU also cover a spread of less than 10 points at 85-90%, and I think it's safe to say there is absolutely NO reason to think Cincinnati will win this game SU, therefore they have about a 10-15% chance of losing SU, yet covering the spread.

HOMEDAWG
10-25-2004, 05:14 PM
Stif... Excellent writeup:clap:

GL Tonight... I am definitely on the same side!!! :thumbs:

I thinking, CINCINOTTI scores maybe 10-12:flush: Toughest scoring D they have faced so far this year!!!


GL tonight!!!!!

:yeah:

DJTranks
10-25-2004, 05:17 PM
GL!!

El Hacko
10-25-2004, 05:18 PM
:thumbs:Stif, My thoughts couldn't mirror your's anymore if we performed a Vulcan mindmeld. Bad football teams simply can't win! So far as that goes, They also dont't cover as often. For the past 5 or so years, Cinci has been one of my best :win:go against plays for the first half of every season. They win just a few games in the second half of the season just enough to screw up someone's playoff hopes and thats about it.

If they were any good, They's be on MNF more than once in a blue moon. I can see the ABC execs going :bang: right now and thanking thier lucky stars the World Serious isn't on tonight. I'm sure they are having a firesale selling 2nd half ad space.

Sure enjoy your post and the time you've put into the little tidbits of research..:clap:

Makes me like the Den -.5 and under teaser tonight! *LOL*

GL on your plays!

Stifler's Mom
10-25-2004, 05:21 PM
Thanks guys.

I don't have a strong opinion on MNF too often. The only other one was Philly -3, -3.5, or whatever it was vs Minny a few weeks ago and Philly took care of business in that game, so I'm hoping for alot of the same tonight from Denver.

Official play is:

Denver -7 (-106) 2 units

bookiekilla
10-25-2004, 05:25 PM
:thumbs: :thumbs:

GL!

badbeat
10-25-2004, 05:42 PM
Just keep in mind...

Denver has only beaten one team with a winning record (SD) and they pushed in that game. They only scored 6 against Jax and 16 against TB, so Cinci scoring 9 against Baltimore and 16 against Miami doesn't look so bad, all those teams have great D's.

This is Denvers 3rd rd game in four weeks and they just smacked rival Oakland on the road 31-3 (huge win) after they already took care of KC and SD once. They have two home games and a bye in the next three weeks, before they play any more divisional games. So I think this is a let down game for them.

And while it may be true that I'm hoping the ball bounces in Cinci's favor (like you said) sometimes that's all you need.

Stifler's Mom
10-25-2004, 06:02 PM
That may be true, but Cincinnati is not in Tampa or Jacksonville's league defensively, or at all for that matter.

Jacksonville is 5-2 and just beat Indy on the road yesterday, so I believe it safe to assume Cincinnati is nowhere close to being equal to the Jags....Jacksonville plays GREAT defense AND keep opposing offenses in crappy field position with their special teams. These things can not be said for Cincinnati.

Tampa has become a much better team in the recent weeks as well than they looked to start the season, and while they don't have the defensive talent they once had in their super bowl and NFC championship years, it's still very respectable.

Cincinnati has yet to show any improvement in any area on the field, so until they do, playing against them is the play in my book.

The key to this game IMO is Cincinnati's shit defense who can't stop the run or tackle worth a crap against the best running game in the league year in and year out.

Denver can't control who is on their schedule, or what those teams records are. The teams they have beaten may not have winning records, but keep in mind that although they are not having a great season, Carolina is still the defending NFC champion, and they're not pathetic like Cincinnati, TB has a good defense to keep them in games, and even though KC's record doesn't show much, they are still a very good team and it's beginning to show with their convincing road win over Baltimore and the ass whipping they put on Atlanta yesterday....so the records of those teams and Denver's final scores against them may be a little misleading.

badbeat
10-25-2004, 07:13 PM
But do you think it's possible that the fact that they just whooped on Oakland last week and have taken care of KC and SD already could cause them to get a bit lax?

LayingDaMoney
10-25-2004, 07:26 PM
GL Bro!

Stifler's Mom
10-25-2004, 07:29 PM
Of course...anything is possible. It's still early in the season though, and Denver certainly hasn't locked anything up in their division with SD looking pretty good and KC coming on strong. Every win still counts at this point, and I would have to believe the Denver guys realize that, and if they don't, I'm sure Shanahan will make them realize it.

I believe that looking past teams applies more in college sports where the athletes aren't as experienced and focused, and where the rivalries they are looking forward to are much bigger.

Any NFL team with hopes of winning the big one is well aware that they can't look past anyone, or they are going to lose, so I would have to assume Denver will show up to play ball for 60 minutes tonight.

Like i said earlier in this thread though (and this was the final kicker for me to play Denver), faves of under 10 pts that win SU also cover at about 85-90%. I just can't see the Bengals winning the game SU (I'll give them about a 10% shot of winning SU for agruments sake), and 20-25% isn't good enough odds for me to take the points.

BillyHoyle
10-25-2004, 07:53 PM
Nice write-up Stiff. GL

badbeat
10-25-2004, 08:42 PM
Faves of less than 10 pts that win SU cover 85 - 90%?! Where did you get that number from?
You must be using that as a figure of speech, right? Because I find that hard to believe, even if you factor in pushes and dogs that win SU, and anyway if it was a real stat it would be exact, not have a range.

BTW, I'm not trying to be a pain, I just find this game tonight really interesting.

Stifler's Mom
10-25-2004, 10:57 PM
Seriously, the team that wins the game SU is covering at about 85-90% this year, provided the line is under 10 pts....yes, dogs are included. But that means dogs that cover are also winning SU, so they don't really factor in. There have only been 1 or 2 dogs a week that lose yet cover the spread.

Cleveland was the only dog this week I believe that covered but didn't win SU, but I would have to recheck to be sure.

That being said, the Bengals are somehow playing well and are probably going to win this game, so I will take...

Bengals +5.5 2H +131 2 units

Stifler's Mom
10-25-2004, 11:07 PM
I'll elaborate a little on what I said a little about the teams covering SU.

Figuring on 14 games a week (with 4 teams having a bye), if 1 dog loses, but covers, that's 13 out of 14 and 92%....and if 2 dogs lose, but cover, that's 12 out of 14 and 85%.

I cannot remember a week where more than 2 dogs lost but covered...and I know at least one week all 14 teams that won SU also covered the spread.

In my original thinking, I could not see the Bengals winning this game, so that's where the 85-90% came in. They have played surprisingly well however and should be up by plenty more if they could manage to not shoot themselves in the foot continuously.

That is what makes the NFL tough...like they say "On any given Sunday (or Monday in this case)"

If i had to make the same play over with a fresh start on a new day, I would take Denver -7 again though.

Stifler's Mom
10-26-2004, 12:26 AM
Thank you Bungals for that big 2H winner, lol.

SU winners 12-1-1 ATS again this week. Philly was the only team that won but didn't cover, and New England pushed.

This is every week since week 3 (I didn't track weeks 1 and 2) that the team winning SU has flat out dominated ATS.

Find the game winner, and you normally have the ATS winner as well....unfortunately this means finding the barking dogs too so it's not that easy, BUT what it mostly shows is DO NOT bet on a dog, especially one of under 7 pts unless you believe that dog will win SU, because if they don't win SU, they just don't cover.

ALSO, a lesson on 2nd half lines...don't think for a minute that the books don't know about this trend and that's why they make the 2H line look so juicy when a dog is winning at the half. Unless you think the fave will come back to cover the game line, they're probably not a good bet to cover the 2H line either.

Lastly, congrats to everyone who called the Bengals tonight. In capping the game, I didn't see anything but a game dominated by the Denver running game, but the Bengals came to play tonight, pretty much for the first time this season, and earned the win.

mike333
10-26-2004, 12:28 AM
Nice bounce back 2H Stif!!! :thumbs:

badbeat
10-28-2004, 01:00 AM
Yes, the Bengals were motivated. I think Lewis is a better motivator than Shanarat and I think Denver is going to be relatively average for the rest of this year, ATS at least.

Very sportsmanlike of you to admit you were wrong so I will act in kind and refrain from bragging. I'm just a guy who always loves those home dogs in the NFL. I always try to make a case for them.